Ate Brake Pads With Wire Clips

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RussGLAuto
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Ate Brake Pads With Wire Clips

Post by RussGLAuto » Tue Feb 02, 2021 3:13 pm

Afternoon Chaps,

After finding some period correct Ate brake pads I bought some shiny new discs from VW Heritage and on the face of it, looked just the same, like for like replacements.

I'm not looking to upgrade, but keep the brake system entirely OEM stock.

The below shots are of the original discs and pads fitted. Not easy to see, but the original pads have a small notch cut out to take the wire clips. I fitted the new disc and pads no problem, however I couldn't understand when the clips would not go back in place.

After some head scratching I compared the new and original pads and discovered the new pads don't have the small cut out notch for the wire clips. Have these been discontinued? Or should I grind in a couple of slots myself?

Thanks in advance.
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mark1gls
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Re: Ate Brake Pads With Wire Clips

Post by mark1gls » Tue Feb 02, 2021 5:51 pm

Not sure what year your car is but my pads on my 1988 car have this style of anti rattle clip, they usually come with the new brake pads? My callipers may be different as the have VW II stamped on them.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VW-GOLF-MK1- ... SwDrNZU4H3

I think you may have the wrong brake pads if they look like this as these fit the Kelsey-Hayles calipers.


https://www.eurocarparts.com/p/pagid-br ... -101440158


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RussGLAuto
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Re: Ate Brake Pads With Wire Clips

Post by RussGLAuto » Tue Feb 02, 2021 9:33 pm

mark1gls wrote:
Tue Feb 02, 2021 5:51 pm
Not sure what year your car is but my pads on my 1988 car have this style of anti rattle clip, they usually come with the new brake pads? My callipers may be different as the have VW II stamped on them.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VW-GOLF-MK1- ... SwDrNZU4H3

I think you may have the wrong brake pads if they look like this as these fit the Kelsey-Hayles calipers.


https://www.eurocarparts.com/p/pagid-br ... -101440158
Sorry, here is the whole photo, the Ate callipers also have VW II on them. It's a 1983 model year GL 1.6 Auto:

You have the more modern flat metal clip, these have the wire type clip which I haven't seen for sale anywhere so far.

https://volkswagen.7zap.com/en/rdw/scir ... 615015/#11

Interestingly the pads from VW Heritage didn't come with any spring clips or any cutouts for the clips and yet share the same OEM part number:

191 698 151 G

https://www.heritagepartscentre.com/uk/ ... discs.html

I'm confused and my pads are down to less than 50% and am starting to get a fair bit of travel on the brake peddle.

I don't suppose you have a picture of your VW II callipers with the pads and clips fitted at all?

In the words of Clarkson, how hard can this be?
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Re: Ate Brake Pads With Wire Clips

Post by mark1gls » Tue Feb 02, 2021 11:41 pm

Just looked and I don’t have a picture on my phone, I did find this thread online which have the same callipers as fitted to my Mk1 Golf cabriolet which has the same running gear as a Mk2 Scirocco.
Your callipers do look different..

https://vwgolfmk1.org.uk/forum/index.ph ... ke-caliper


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Re: Ate Brake Pads With Wire Clips

Post by mark1gls » Tue Feb 02, 2021 11:59 pm

Searching that part number listed on 7zap, 191 698 151 with either G or J or E and the end seems to find the pads for the Kelsey-Hayles callipers which are different to the ATE callipers?

Very strange....


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Re: Ate Brake Pads With Wire Clips

Post by mark1gls » Wed Feb 03, 2021 12:14 am

Might be worth phoning VW heritage and see if they can get pads for the ATE callipers because having a quick search of the usually places I can’t seem to find any?


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GT_II
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Re: Ate Brake Pads With Wire Clips

Post by GT_II » Wed Feb 03, 2021 1:41 am

Worn pads don't normally result in increased pedal travel - the callipers should take up the slack. Could there be a fault elsewhere causing the increased pedal travel?

The parts diagrams suggest the old style pads and springs were superseded by the new style pads and springs, certainly prior to 1992. Presumably the new style pad and spring set was designed to be backwards compatible. At that time, two thicknesses of pad were available, 191698151H at 12 mm thick and 191698151G at 20 mm thick. Both these eventually superseded 191698151L.


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Re: Ate Brake Pads With Wire Clips

Post by RussGLAuto » Wed Feb 03, 2021 8:00 am

mark1gls wrote:
Tue Feb 02, 2021 11:41 pm
Just looked and I don’t have a picture on my phone, I did find this thread online which have the same callipers as fitted to my Mk1 Golf cabriolet which has the same running gear as a Mk2 Scirocco.
Your callipers do look different..

https://vwgolfmk1.org.uk/forum/index.ph ... ke-caliper
They do look different, however, it does show me how the flat clips are fitted which should work. As GT_II has said, my pads and spring clips have been superseded by VW ensuring the new type fit on the existing callipers.

Way forward, have a chat with Heritage parts, they should have included the new flat type clips with their 20mm pads. A lot of websites say these should be replaced at the same time as the pads.

What it does show is that the pads fitted have been on the car for quite a few years! As for the peddle travel, there are no leaks in the system, everything is dry, does perhaps point to the brake hoses might need replacing. One thing at a time...

Thanks for your help gents. Much appreciated.


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Re: Ate Brake Pads With Wire Clips

Post by mark1gls » Wed Feb 03, 2021 11:21 am

How old is your brake fluid?
Any more than 4 years old I would change the fluid but not via the garage lazy way of just bleeding it through 1 brake line as I’ve found even a VW garage did this on my wife’s Polo, bleed the new fluid through all the brake lines to make sure new fluid in all the brake lines. DOT 4 is what you want.

I fitted braided brake hoses and they do seem to firm up the pedal and adjust up the rear brake shoes as that makes a lot of difference to the feel of the pedal.


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Re: Ate Brake Pads With Wire Clips

Post by mark1gls » Wed Feb 03, 2021 11:23 am

And yes every set of front brake pads I’ve fitted in the last 25 years have come with new anti rattle clips....


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Re: Ate Brake Pads With Wire Clips

Post by mark1gls » Wed Feb 03, 2021 11:26 am

Thinner brake pads for vented disc and the thicker pads are for solid disc.
Cant quite see what type of disc you have?

Sorry for all the extra post as I can’t seem to edit my original posts on the iPad?


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Re: Ate Brake Pads With Wire Clips

Post by GT_II » Wed Feb 03, 2021 12:14 pm

It is worth checking the rear brake adjuster wedges - they may be stuck and not taking up the slack in the rear shoes, which could increase pedal travel. If you slacken them by levering the bottom of the adjuster wedge upwards through the hole in the backplate, the pedal travel should increase, then hit the brake pedal firmly a few times. If the adjusters are free they should spring back down to take up the slack, and the brake pedal travel will decrease.
Last edited by GT_II on Wed Feb 03, 2021 1:35 pm, edited 3 times in total.


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Re: Ate Brake Pads With Wire Clips

Post by RussGLAuto » Wed Feb 03, 2021 1:14 pm

Yes, my discs are OEM solid, good job I bought the thicker pads!

I have read that old rubber brake hoses can 'bulge' for the want of a better word causing excess peddle travel so that was going to be my next changeout.
The brake fluid has been changed recently so should be OK. However, will be done again when I change the hoses.

Thanks for tip on the rear drums GT_II, they're also on the list of renewal jobs as I'm sure the are as old as the pads.

I had thought the excessive brake travel was down to a dodgy master cylinder, but as I say, all dry.


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Re: Ate Brake Pads With Wire Clips

Post by mark1gls » Wed Feb 03, 2021 2:03 pm

When I changed my brake hoses the rear hoses are difficult to get any spanners on, I found a set of crows feet wrench comes in very handy to get into the tight space, they are also wrap around the nut better than an opened spanner.

Something like this.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Crowfoot-Wre ... SwuOZeOu5Z


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Re: Ate Brake Pads With Wire Clips

Post by RussGLAuto » Thu Feb 04, 2021 8:45 am

Good tip thank you, haven't sized the job up yet. However, I do need to buy one of those brake bleeding pump and bottle thingamies...

Called VW Heritage yesterday to see if they had the missing pad clips. Waste of time. "Sorry, we don't sell those" was all I got. I'll be sending their pads back then.

Did some more searching for Ate brake parts and came across this comprehensive pdf guide to their classic parts:

https://www.ate-brakes.com/media/3176/a ... 5-2017.pdf

Found the OEM pad part number which then found me these, which include the anti rattle pad clips;

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/ate/956141

Finally!


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